Why We Come to Earth - Christian Sundberg

youtube.com/watch?v=Nf2-aSwVLGY

Doing that was the primary aspect of my life. It was extremely likely that I would go down that kind of trajectory because that's exactly what I wanted to do. How that played out? Well, here I am. It played out in a way that I don't know how it's laid out in comparison to the original review. I don't have full access to it, but we're all doing something like that. We're all nudging the probabilities all the time, not just with our choices and our thoughts but with our intent. Our very expectation is constantly nudging how things will unfold.

We're very powerful creative beings. Consciousness is first; the physical is subsequent to consciousness. So, what goes on in our own minds and hearts is actually very important. That's why shows like this, where we're engaging new ideas and trying to basically realize and feel again that deep love that actually is real and actually exists for us—when we do that, when we touch into that, it's actually part of the solution. You may not see an immediate physical effect, but just that resonance, just the resonance between individuals focusing on that love or facing their own fear or getting past ignorance—some kind of ignorance that's held them up their whole life—somehow, our own journeys that happen internally are a part of the ultimate way to heal our world. The ultimate solution? Consciousness is first. Yes, the physical stuff will happen second.

You've got to relax and situate the positive. I feel good.

[Music]

You're listening to Karen Swain, teacher of deliberate creation, accentuating the positive, showing you a way to a better life. Accentuating the positive—it's not just a fad, it's sanity. Who in their right mind would accentuate anything else?

Hello and welcome to another show of Accentuating the Positive with Karen Swain. As always, such a blessing to be with you all today. Please remember, if you're liking the shows, to hit that subscribe button and the bell button if you're listening on YouTube. I have started uploading some of my videos to other platforms—just a bit of variety. Odyssey—I'm checking out Odyssey. I'm checking out quite a few different streaming platforms.

I'd like to introduce you to the gorgeous Christian Sundberg. Welcome to the show, Christian.

Thank you, Karen.

One of my friends, followers, listeners—Gloria—sent me an email. I don't know if she was the first time, but yeah, she might have been. She sent me an email and said, "Check out Christian." That was back in April. It's so funny—when I saw you, I had seen you come up on YouTube so many times in the side videos, and I thought I was looking at—what's the guy's name?—Edward Snowden.

I have not heard that comparison before. Really? Has anyone ever said that to you?

Your face came up, and I kept thinking it was an Edward Snowden video because it just kept coming up. I think the universe was trying to say to me, "Check out this guy, Christian." And I just dismissed it, thinking, "Oh, it's Edward Snowden." And then, when Gloria sent me your video, I looked at you and went, "Oh my God, that's the guy that keeps coming up on YouTube." So, there you go.

Let me tell people a little bit about Christian. You've been doing a lot of shows of late, haven't you?

Yes.

And you're probably over-repeating your story over and over again.

Oh, it's okay. It's an important story. It's very personal, but it's important to share.

It is an important story, and hopefully, we'll speak about other things that other shows haven't. But when Christian was a young child, he remembered his existence before coming to Earth. While that memory left him completely at around six years old, for most of his early adult life, it spontaneously returned when he was around 30, as he took up a meditation practice and went through a personal awakening journey. It was around this time he also began to remember his out-of-body experiences.

Can you do those deliberately? Can you deliberately have out-of-body experiences, like sit on the couch and just—

No, I can't. But they happen.

Yeah, and you started remembering them?

I think we all have them all the time, but we just have no memory of them. But at this point, when your memories came back about who you were before you came to Earth, you were also starting to remember what you're doing when you're out of body.

Yeah, I began to have conscious out-of-body experiences that were very eye-opening and shocking. That actually began to happen first, and that was very worldview-altering at the time. Wow. And so, as that was happening, I began to have these memories return. They were always there; they were just being uncovered. And I was like, "How did I ever forget that?" It was the most natural thing in the world, but they had been veiled, of course, which is quite natural while we're on Earth.

Yeah, it's amazing how much information we're storing in our subconscious that we're not consciously aware of. So much, anyway. You've written a book called A Walk in the Physical, which attempts to succinctly describe the larger spiritual context in which we exist and the importance of love in our human journey.

And you've worked as a project manager for complex nuclear pump and valve manufacturing projects. So, what did that entail? You've been pretty sort of left-brain-oriented in your work, was it?

Manufacturing, yeah. So, for 16 years, I worked for a manufacturing company. We manufactured valves and pumps that went into the power industry. For 14 of those years, I was a project manager for the complex projects—the nuclear valve and pump projects. Some were design projects; most were manufacturing engineer-order manufacturing projects. And yeah, it was quite an interesting career—definitely different than this type of material. But actually, I think it was helpful because I was able to use the left brain, as it were, to such an extent that I think that really helped in being able to create a framework for the content in the book.

Which, of course, can't be put into a framework—there's just no way. But I do feel called to try to create a framework, create a context that is helpful—hopefully helpful—for people to understand the place of the human experience within the larger context. It's imperative that we understand that at this time on planet Earth. It's imperative that people start remembering and waking up to the truth of who they are. We can't go on with the forgetting and the—you know, what's going on on our planet right now.

Well, to finish your bio, it says today Christian speaks publicly about his memories as he wishes to remind others of who we truly are beneath the human play. And Christian was just sharing with me that you're no longer doing your corporate job, so you're in between jobs at the moment.

Yes, that's true. And we'll see where it leads.

Well, I was just thinking because we had a bit of discussion online about how many times you've shared your story. So, is there any coincidence that so many people have been interested in your story? It's like you put it out online, and it just exploded, didn't it? Like, people are really—it really did, right?

Yeah, no, I'm very humbled. I'm just a normal guy, and I don't feel like I'm special. We all have this incredibly rich context, and I've been able to share it. And I've been absolutely amazed at the response of this sharing—this very personal story. You know, when I first shared it, I thought, "Well, five people hear this, and it'll be great." You know, at least I can let it out because I felt for seven or eight years I didn't share this at all. I felt like it wasn't the right time. So, when I first shared it, it was like, "Okay, I've said it. It's out there now."

But I have met so many amazing people. There are so many people out there who have similar experiences. And, you know, we just live in a world—well, we live in a society—which is difficult sometimes to share these types of experiences in a way without sounding crazy. You know, yeah. And it's all—I've been just very blessed to meet so many amazing people. I mean, every day I'm meeting just really, really amazing people. There's so many just very loving, evolved people out in the world. And it's just such a great blessing to connect with them.

Isn't that beautiful that there are so many loving people in the world?

It is. I think we think the world is dark and terrible all the time because, like, news tends to—you know, our mainstream media tends to focus on the negative. But there's so much goodness out in the world. There really is. And there's so many incredible people. You know, I've been doing this show for like 12 years, but I've been showcasing new and old teachers for about 25 years. There are so many incredible people on this planet. It's just awesome.

I want to say something to you. We need teachers that don't feel like they're special. Let me tell you—we need teachers that feel like they're like everybody else. I mean, the world needs teachers like that—that you know, that don't think, "I'm any more special than you." Because none of them—I mean, Jesus said the same thing: "All of you can do as I've done." You know, "I'm not special; I'm just teaching you what's possible." We need teachers like that—that don't say, "Hey, I'm special." There's too many teachers in the world that will tell you that they're special. They have thousands and thousands of followers. Yeah, we need teachers like you, Christian.

The real teacher is the spirit that is within you. You don't really need an external person. Meanwhile, we're all just out here in the woods together, you know, out in the wilderness and the weeds. And that's it. We're just all in the weeds together. There's not like—I mean, we're all just here to help each other if we can. But the true teacher is within.

You know, I like to try to constantly remind people that you are your own authority, your own power. And yeah, well, that's what a teacher is—somebody that reminds others that they too are the teacher or that they have access to their own teacher. But yeah, the teacher is the spirit within. But the teacher—that wisdom has to flow through a mind-body, you know, personality complex in order to be expressed in the world.

And to finish your bio, A Walk in the Physical.com is your website. Okay, let's get into your story because it's just amazing, and I know you've told it a million times, and this will be a million and one.

[Laughter]

So, where do you want to start? What happens?

Yeah, I'll just dive right in, and please do feel free to interrupt if you'd like and ask any questions.

So, before I begin to describe this, I have to just say that these things are not speakable. There's no language that can possibly articulate our higher natures or the nature of the higher realms from which we come because our true nature transcends duality. It transcends the limited context of Earth. And so, our language is based on our local context. You know, it's the symbols and forms of Earth. So, there's just no symbols and forms, no words I can throw at you that will possibly even remotely touch the richness and the complexity and the beauty of what we really are.

So, I just have to say that up front. So, it's not possible to take any of this literally, and I just—you know, it's important to know. Okay.

So, I remember a very, very long time ago, before I had ever been physical, coming across a being who had been physical. And I was deeply inspired by this being because I could feel from him the quality of his essence, his nature, who he really was. It was like—because there's like a telepathic exchange between individuals. It's not just language; you can actually feel you're part of them, and they're part of you. So, you can feel what they feel and who they are.

And I asked this being, "My goodness, like, look what you are. How did you—what did you do to become this? Like, what could you possibly have done or known or experienced to be this?"

And he shared with me telepathically that he had been physical. He had lived physical lives, and he shared one in particular in which he had suffered from some kind of physical ailment or pain. And this pain lasted for a very long time in his experience. And the way with which he chose to meet his experience allowed a certain refinement of who he was. It allowed a beautiful refinement—is the best word I can think of—a quality of his essence that was empowered and deepened by his knowing this experience and by how he chose to meet it.

And I said, "I want to do that. I want to do that. I am going to do that." I was super—just deeply inspired, like, "Oh my gosh, I want to do that."

And he said something to the effect of—and you know, it's just kind of not negative; it's kind of playful—like, "Yeah, that's what they all say. It's hard in a way. You don't know."

And I said, "No, I mean it. I want to do that."

He said, "Well, go talk to your guides."

So, I did. And I lived many times, and I had many physical experiences. And I went and found him later and shared with him that I was in the process of doing this. And he was encouraging.

Okay, so the majority of my pre-birth experience memories are of a time somewhat immediately preceding this life, where I had taken a long break. I had done many physical experiences, and I was in a state where I was resting. And this guide kept coming to me and asking, "Are you ready to go back in? Are you ready to go back yet?" Like, every once in a while, just keep pinging me, pinging me. And I kept putting him off for a while, saying, "No, I'm not ready. I'm not ready. I'm not doing it yet." And then, eventually, I said, "Okay, I'm ready."

And when he came to me, then I remember reviewing what I can only describe as like my state, my nature, who I was, and what qualities I knew. I don't want to use the word "developed," but it's kind of like the development of qualities. It's like the knowing, the experiential growth into certain qualities and knowing of certain types of experience.

And when I reviewed this with him, it was very obvious the thing that I needed to do, the thing I needed to work on, so to speak. I don't like the words "work on," but it was clear the type of thing that I needed to engage. And it was this very, very low vibration fear that had completely bested me and overcome me in a past physical experience. And when I saw it, I was like, "Oh yeah, it was very obvious. It's like I've got to do something about that."

So, okay, but I knew even then that the depth of this fear was so extreme that I knew it would be daunting to be able to meet an experience of this very, very low vibration and to integrate it—you know, to really come to terms with it and heal it and meet it fully. I knew that would be extremely difficult.

So, I asked, "Is it even possible? You know, is it even possible within all that is? Has any being in creation ever done something like this—met a fear this low, come to terms with it?"

And the guide said, "Yes, and you have all time available to you to do so. There's no hurry."

And I just knew from that state of being, "Well, if it can be done, I will do it." Like, from a human standpoint, it doesn't feel quite like that to me now because I know right now the challenges of being human and the pains we can have. But at the time, I knew what we are, what we all are, and the true strength and immortality and power of the spirit and the fact that there is nothing to fear. And I said, "Well, if it can be done, I will do it."

So, they brought me a life that was a physical life that was very perfect, very appropriate for this intention. And I reviewed that life, and I accepted that life. And that life was not this life as Christian; it was just before this one.

And I remember accepting the veil. And this is the thing that is most in the forefront of my mind—this experience of—it's very hard to explain. It's like having your true nature obscured from you and diving down from a place of all connectedness and knowing, down, down, down, down, down, down, down, super low into a place that feels separate and there's no knowing. And it's like being super dense and super—like, almost like going to a vacuum of space where there's just no heat.

You know, but I like to describe it like an amplifier that produces a sound pitch. I think this is like the best metaphor. It's like, you know, you're in a very high vibration; your being is connected to all things. And then you turn the knob, and it goes down. And then when it gets to the bottom, you turn it down more, and then you turn it down some more and more and more, and they keep turning it down more and more and more and more. That's what it felt like—the plummet down, down, down, lower, all the way into the vantage point of being human.

And so, then I was there, and I was only there for a very short time. I was in the womb; I had not been born yet. I was experiencing being a body in a womb. And I said, "I'm not doing this. This is so dark. This is so low vibration. I don't know. I lost everything that I am. I'm not doing this."

So, I mustered my might, my strength, and I smoked the veil. I fought my way out; I pushed my way back past it. And I succeeded in doing that, but I became immediately aware that I had killed the fetus that was to be mine. I had inadvertently ended the life.

And I had a life review for my very, very short life. I don't know how long I was there, but even in that very short amount of time, I had made an impact. And I became aware of how I had made the mother's journey more difficult because I had heaped grief upon her. And I saw, like, ripples in a pond away from the mother—hundreds of degrees, like hundreds of other people, and all these degrees out from the mother that would also be negatively impacted because of my fear, like right at the beginning.

And so, from that side, I knew nothing was wrong. You know, because from that side, you can tell it's okay. It's just a play; everything's fine. There's not really a problem; it's just something we come to experience. But I could see very—like, almost objectively—like, "Oh man, I got a lot of fear. I've got to do something about it. This is not what I wanted to do."

I had all these great intentions, you know. I went with all these really complex, wonderful intentions, but I had wasted that opportunity.

So, I spent some time in a room that I call—I'm just calling this a term—like a veil acceptance simulator. It's a place to go where you can practice surrendering to the veil so that you can do it without reacting the way that I did. You know, like, basically, it's like being dunked under deep water in a deep pool and being plunged under the water and seeing how long you can hold your breath, so to speak. But you can cry uncle, you know, if you want out, you just raise your hand or something—not literally raise your hand, but you just call out, and they can light you up because it's just a simulator.

Well, I can tell you that the real thing is more difficult than the simulator. I remember that because I was there for a while.

And then, eventually, they brought me this life. Okay, so this life was very good. It was good enough, but it was not as perfect as the other one would have been. The other one was a really, really optimal match for what I wanted to experience, and the circumstances and the biology of that life were more appropriate for who I am as a soul. Whereas this life, it was less perfect, but it was good.

And so, I remember reviewing this life in incredible detail. It was like if you laid a tree on its side and reviewed it—it was like reviewing a flowchart with millions and millions of possibilities of what may happen in this life and what it may be like to experience doing this in this life, being this person, Christian. And you know, there were events in there, but it was primarily about what would it be like to be me in all of these different experiences and all these different possible avenues that life might take me.

And I knew that it was very likely that in my 20s—my early 20s—I would experience a trauma that would likely crush me and allow me to re-experience this deep fear that I wished to re-engage and heal. And I also knew many other aspects of the life. I knew that, like, for instance, my parents were very important. I knew that my father would instill confidence in me, and that confidence would be paramount to me having a rock to stand on to meet this fear.

And I knew that it would be meaningful for me to be male, just because the male energy in this case would be helpful for me. And I remember asking some questions, like, I asked, "Is it okay if I be intelligent this time?" Because I knew that—well, it wasn't so much, "Is it okay if I be intelligent?" More like, "I want to be intelligent," because I knew that I had been intelligent in other experiences, and I appreciated that; I liked that. And they said, "Yes, you can do that."

And I also asked, I said, "You know, I don't want to forget everything this time. I just want to remember a small, tiny little bit—just a little bit." And they said, "Yes, you can do that, but that will make the life more difficult." And I knew why it was because the contrast of this life is even greater when it's known in relation to where we come from because there is such a high vibration and so wonderful that being on Earth can be exceptionally painful to have some glimpse of that.

It's one of the functions of the veil, then, to protect us—like, make sure that we don't get so homesick that we can't do anything else. But anyway, so I knew that even that contrast of having that awareness and feeling that extra contrast—I knew that even that—oh, and the sensitivity that would go along with it—I knew that I would have to be very sensitive. I knew that even that contrast—like all contrast—was an opportunity for growth.

And so, I was very excited. I said, "Yes, I'll do it." And excitement is the key emotion. Like, it was just such an exciting process. I just can't express enough how exciting it is and what was—and is—I say "is" because it feels like the memory is not just in the past; it's kind of like right now. It's like a living thing—how exciting it is to be human and also what an incredibly precious opportunity it is because there's only so many slots. There's only so many chances to be a human, and Earth is such a precious place.

And so, to be given a chance to be human, it's like, "Oh my gosh, it's like being given the most precious gift in the world." Like, this great honor. So, I was very excited.

Okay, so then I remember being in this area. So, I remember there having to be a moment to say yes to the life, and I don't remember that moment, but I remember then being in a waiting area. And then this guy came to me and grabbed my attention, like, "Go now. Like, right now. Now's the time. Now." Like, almost rude—like, kind of like a slap—like, "You've got to go now."

And then being with these beings in this room that I can only describe as like a—it's really hard to explain. It was like a room with a huge shaft—like, it felt like a pit, like a shaft. And below, somewhere below—not physically, but somewhere below—is Earth. And these beings that were there, I can only describe as technicians or tinkerers. They were very mechanical in nature, and they work with consciousness.

And so, they're like mechanical with how consciousness can—with like consciousness technology or something. I don't know how to explain it. And they do this thing where they take the veil and they organically fit it to you. So, like, the body and the circumstances and then the qualities of your soul and who you are—they do this thing where they make it all fit.

So, then I was there, and they asked me one last time, "Are you sure?" Because I knew once I said yes, I was in for the ride. It was like, "You're once you say yes, you're in the roller coaster. There's no getting off the roller coaster. You're in for the ride."

And I said, "Yes."

And then I remember this plummet as the veil came over me again—down, down, down, like I described before—lower, lower, lower, lower, lower. My knowing being cut off, my connectedness to all things disappearing, feeling the quality of who I was like vanishing almost to the place of like nothing—a place of just this very dense, dark, restricted space.

And so, then when I was there, I just basically this time tried not to fight it because I knew that last time I had fought it, I had inadvertently ended it prematurely. So, I just focused on not struggling, not fighting against what was happening.

And I let it take hold of me, and then I sent one signal back to the technicians: "Did it take? Like, did the veil take?" And they sent one message back: "Yes."

And so, I knew I was here. So, I was super excited. I'm like, "Oh, I made it. I'm here. This is awesome."

Okay, so then I was there for a while, and then I was like, "You know what? I am not doing this. This is so dark. This is so low vibration. I am not tolerating this. This is ridiculous. What am I doing?"

So, once again, I began to summon my might to fight my way out when this very holy moment happened for me. From the Great Spirit of God—or whatever word we want to use: Source, the Great I Am of all things—came to me, and it showed me the stars and the universe. And I felt all of it within me, and I felt this churning symphony of bliss within me. And I felt the sun—our sun—like churning and just the love and the beauty of it. And I felt so connected.

And I knew that I was still that. And God said to me, "This is still what you are. You can never not be this."

That memory is the most holy moment for me because that's what we really are. We are that. And I was like, "Oh, that's still what I am. Oh, that's wonderful. Okay."

Okay, so that called me, and I was able to let go and just be in the womb. And I was okay because then I knew it was okay. It was like there wasn't really a big problem.

So, then the next memory happens of being born. I remember the shock of being born—the physical shock, the temperature, you know, the cold, the touching, the sounds. But I had no understanding. I didn't know what was going on. It was just this very extreme experience of suddenly being here.

And I remember the nurses there, like, touching me and doing things to me. And I remember looking at them and being like, "Oh my gosh, who are these wonderful beings who are taking care of me?" Like, I didn't know anything. Like, I had no understanding. I just knew there was something happening, and I had love for those beings. And I was like, "What is going on?" Like, I felt such intense curiosity. I remember just looking around and being like, "Why is it this?"

And I only have one visual image memory—that's like of the room. I remember where my mother was in the bed and where the heating grate was in the window. And I know that they say that babies can't see a room, but I remember this one visual image quite well. So, I don't know how that is, but I remember that. And I eventually drew the room for my mother when I got older, and you know, she confirmed, "That's right. That's where I was. That's where the bed was. That's where the doctor was."

So, then as I got older, I used to cheat a little and drop into this memory up until the age of like four and five. By the age of six, I had no memory of this at all. But early on, I remember—especially before the ages of four and five—like, trying to look at the flowchart memory to see what was going to happen, you know, to like kind of cheat and just simple things like, "Who's going to come over to the house tomorrow?" or "What are we going to do today?" You know, just like very simple questions, just asking for so I knew what to expect.

And that ability diminished as I got older. And I also remember feeling very strongly that certain qualities of the other reality would be true here. Like, for instance, I imagined—I assumed—that everybody would be able to feel each other's emotions here because that's very normal in other systems—that we can just share who we are, share our feelings.

And that's not how it works on Earth. I also assumed that people who were in positions of authority or positions of—I don't know—teaching would be loving and wise, you know, because that's how it is in other systems—that beings who are in positions of leadership or teaching or guides are loving and wise. That's not always the case on Earth. We sometimes have leaders who are not so loving and wise.

So, that memory left me completely by the age of five or six, and then I had no memory of that at all until the age of 30. My body is 41 right now. And like I mentioned, when it began to return to me, it was the most matter-of-fact, natural thing in the whole world. Like, "Of course, of course, this is what happened." Like, and it wasn't like a big "aha." It was just like, "Oh, yeah. Why did I forget that?" You know, I was just like, "It was always there, but some leaves had covered it up or something."

Yeah, so I didn't share it for the first seven or eight years. I did share it a few years ago for the first time, and like we talked about already, the response has been amazing. There's a lot of people out there who actually have similar memories. And it's—I love connecting with those people because I feel like there's this really cool energetic link and bridge that's formed when we can meet here in the physical and still have like a bit of a—when we touch that higher vibration, that higher place, and then touch here, and there's like a circuit almost made that's very powerful.

Yeah, anyway, so that's a quick summary. I have so many questions. I just wanted to get the story. Look, I remember listening to you back in April, and the thing that stuck—I mean, all of it stuck—but the thing that stuck is I thought that the leaders of our world would be loving and wise, and that's not what I experienced. And I remember that stayed in my mind, and I kept thinking about that, like, "Who said that? Who said that?" And then when I was revisiting you last night, I'm like, "Oh, it was Christian that said that."

That statement stayed in my mind—that the leaders of our world would be loving and kind. And like, go figure that the leaders of our world are so not loving.

Yeah, and it's pretty natural here because we are in an extreme state of separation by comparison. It's not true separation, but the experience of separation is so deep that there's so much fear and ego that rises from so much evil that rises from fear and so much fear because the constraint is so high that our way of interacting with each other is yet—we have a long way to go to fully actualize our true loving natures with each other.

So, we live in a society that—like, our two real things that we have going—just a high level—we've got fear and ignorance. Too real—like, I say problems, but they're not really problems. But the two hindrances to why we don't have a society that is fully functioning with all love and wisdom as the priority is one, fear—we all have so much fear for making choices based on ego every day—and the other is ignorance—just that we don't remember. You know, we just grab onto all sorts of things and claim knowledge and then go and do all sorts—you know, we then use our fear, and we don't use that responsibly.

So, when you take this to such a degree where our entire society—where we can barely even talk to each other, you know, we can't even communicate—it takes so much effort just to talk. You know, you take that whole context, it's no wonder that we have a weak—we can at times have an inefficient society.

Yeah, absolutely. Okay, I'm going to go back to the beginning.

Yeah, sorry.

Do you have memory—you probably don't—of where you were before you had physical Earth lives? Like, you know, when you said you met the being, do you remember what experiences you'd had up into that point? I mean, we're talking linearly, and it's not linear, but—

Yeah, it's not linear. Okay, so the only memory I have is that memory where I was in a—okay, so it was like—words are so vastly insufficient. It was like traveling across a green, beautiful landscape—though it wasn't like an Earth landscape. It was like traveling across a landscape with many, many other souls, and we were all participating in one joint activity. We had one shared purpose, and this very evolved being was doing the same thing we were. We were going in the same direction.

And I don't remember—you know, how I can't even tell you what that was—but we had some shared intention that we were moving towards that was—I mean, okay, so on the other side, there's so much activity that is rooted purely in love and creativity and joy—just like joy. So, there's so many ways that we examine that and express that and play with it and use form—which, like, this world is a world of extremely dense form. Form just means objects and things and energies.

We do all sorts of activities that involve the use of form, ultimately for the purposes of love and joy. So, I don't know exactly what we were doing, but it was some shared activity where this being was with us, and I was like, "Wow, do you feel—how I feel you feel that?" That was how it started. It was like I felt so much joy coming from this being. He shared with me that he did.

Yeah, so was he in form? Were you in some sort of—you know, as I try to visualize this because I'm in a human form, I'm thinking, "Oh, you all look like humans," but you probably weren't human at all. You were like points of light.

At the time, I perceived my own body—for lack of a better word—and the bodies of others as light—as living bodies of light. Right, yeah. So, it's like you're kind of these energy orb-type things, but you understand that you're separate and one at the same time.

But his energy—yeah, you're not separate. It's more like you're individuated and one individual. Right, yeah. You're not—there's no separation, but yeah.

But when it's okay—so like, you mentioned an orb. So, what we tend to do on Earth is we tend to take the objects that we've learned on Earth and try to understand everything from the perspective of less objects. That's all we remember. So, we think of things like, "Okay, what's one thing that I know that I can associate with it? An orb, you know, a circle." That's okay. You know, that's what we do as humans, but that's why these things are so difficult to express because it's not like that.

It's also like the land—you're connected to the land. I say the land—you're connected to the environment and to each other too, and you feel it, and you know it, and it's a part of you, and you're a part of them, and it's all alive and full of energy, and like the light itself is alive. It's very hard to explain.

And there's not just one place either. You know, we like to think of the other side like on Earth—we think there's Earth, and then there's the other side. Well, no, there's actually many, many, many, many reality systems, all with their own constraints, their own rule set, you know, with how we engage them, what we experience. So, I can't possibly from here—I don't know how to relate that experience to everything else. I simply don't have any ability to do that.

I know it's mind-boggling to think of, really. It's absolutely mind-boggling, but we won't get too stuck on that. I could talk about that for about two hours.

Sorry, no, I could, but—I was just thinking of—you know, I had this beautiful woman, Naia Yvonne Ballard, who was an author for one of my books, who just left her body recently. She had the most extensive NDE experience, and you know, she said that often what happened to you often happens where souls kind of go, "Nope, can't do this," and they exit the body either in utero or when they're young babies. And we call that SIDS—often, you know, that's sudden infant death syndrome.

And I've often wondered about that question. I haven't really heard that said many times, so that's interesting that someone else is making that comment. It stands to reason for me, right? You know, because I can't be the only one with a lot of fear. So, it stands to reason that because of the extreme nature of the separation that we experience on Earth—it's so alien—it stands to reason to me that others might react in a similar way.

Yeah, this is a really hard world, and coming here takes a brave—like, takes a courageous—again, I'm speaking in human terms, but that's you know, what are you going to do? That's what we've got. That's what we've got to work with. It takes a courageous soul, and some kind of go, "Nope, can't do it. No, no, can't do it."

I remember listening to another woman who'd had a few NDEs, and she had memory of chatting to her guides too. And she said that in this life—she was, I think, in her 50s at the time she was speaking—it was an Iron thing I watched online. And she had died as a child pretty much throughout all her life because she just kind of reached a point where she went, "Nope, too hard. I'm out of here." And you know, there was just like trying to keep her in her body so that she could actually live some sort of length inside the physical form.

I completely relate to that. That's so interesting. I can definitely see that happening.

And what's so fascinating with what you say is, you know, the more memory you have, the more you experience the contrast, and the harder it is. So, the veil actually serves us in not remembering who we are. It serves us in anchoring us to this physical world and all that we experience as a physical being.

And loving that—you know, loving that we don't remember, loving that word—we feel separated. And yeah, and finding it—it's not—yeah, it's not just that it's harder. I mean, it's also incredibly liberating too.

No, I don't mean to pigeonhole, you know, that—I don't want to draw a direct correlation that less veil always equals more pain. That's not really because the thing is we're not actually like—we're experiencing being veiled, but we're not actually here all the way. We actually exist on the other side right now.

So, it's not like you're stuck here. And I just want to highlight that because it's not like you should avoid it necessarily. Trying to find out how you are experiencing who we really are is an incredible joy and incredible liberation. But yeah, it does serve a great purpose to help us stay completely grounded, rooted, and focused within the human personality's perspective because that is the value. You know, that's where the value lies—being Karen, you know, being whoever you are today, getting up in the morning and eating your breakfast and going to work and, you know, whatever—going to the bathroom. You know, doing that from your human perspective is valuable.

It's valuable. Yeah.

Yeah, ah—something. Anyway, I lost train of thought.

When we entered the body—so as you speak about your experience, you're entering the body in utero, and yet some souls elect to like skip the utero process and enter the body when the baby's born. You know, like there's a variety of ways that we can enter this world, right? There's—I think that as I'm listening to your story, I'm chatting to my mob, and I'm thinking, "I guess it depends on the experience of the soul when they're going to enter the body." If you're kind of old hand at this, you can come in and out at will—like, enter, you can experience utero or not.

What do you think about that?

Well, both the experience and the soul of the soul and the qualities and nature of the soul. And also, it's not that you're going into a fundamentally real object called a body. It's more like reaching a vibrational place in which you now engage from that body's perspective—something like that.

Yeah, like logging into a video game, maybe.

Yeah.

Yeah, and the video game—you log into a video game; you don't have to crawl into a body. You just log on, right? And it's so real at the time you're playing it that you forget that you're not it. Like, yeah, yeah, that you're not it.

And the more that we associate with the content of the video game character—the story, the ideas, the thoughts—the more we do that, the thicker the veil is felt, right? So, like, little children—they're not deeply associated with it yet, so they can come and go a lot easier. When they see things that we don't see, they get there, go out, and come back—no big deal. Whereas us—"Oh, I've got to pay the bills, and I've got to go to work, and I have pain, and you know, this person made fun of me, and you know, all the things"—is constantly cycling those lower vibrational associations tend to make the veil feel very thick, right?

Which is the crux of enlightenment, really. It's what I teach constantly—that when you identify with your human personality-body-mind complex, you suffer. But when you identify with spirit having an experience—"I'm not this; I'm not my thoughts; I'm not my body; I'm not my personality; I'm not my experiences"—and you can don that witness—like, you're like you're watching—you know, you don't suffer. You can actually enjoy the pain. You can enjoy the suffering.

Yeah, that's beautiful. I want to help add on to that by saying that that is not a process of disassociation. I can feel some listeners saying, "So, I'm supposed to focus on the fact I'm not my body?" It's not that you're creating a new division. It's more that you—so, I—okay, this is the word meditation. That's what this word comes up. It means spending time with moving your awareness back towards itself routinely so that you gain familiarity with that awareness.

And so, it means then that the thoughts will be less—they won't have the same oomph. And so, it actually is experientially you move in that direction—like, you actually become more alert and much more aware of everything—all the pain, all the pleasure. It is an opening. It is an acceptance of knowing all that is actually here—not a rejection or a division or a new boundary.

I'm just pointing that out. I think it's important.

And something else that you said during your story is the benefit of experiencing the suffering that we experience here on Earth—like the benefit of it. What—do you want to go into that? Because I've had this conversation with my clients and my tribe often—you know, what's the benefit of suffering? Because as humans, we see the contrast that we experience as something to resist, to hate, to push away, and we don't understand that there's actually benefit in it.

So, when you met this being of light, and he had lived many lives in the human world, and he had suffered much—I don't even know if he was human, actually, but you know—oh, really? So, he could have been human, but I don't know the type of physical life he lived. But anyway—

Okay, that's interesting. So, oh, so he just led physical lives like in denser reality? It could have been human; it could have been human.

Ah, so what do you see the benefit of the suffering we go through here on Earth?

So, it's not that suffering is required. That is not the way it is. It's that contrast is a powerful tool, and that's an important distinction because what we're doing is we're entering an experience of high constraint, not an experience of guaranteed pain. Pain happens—most of our suffering, I should say, happens—the differential. Physical pain is going to happen here and there, but suffering—which is the vast majority of our pain—is our own suffering about our context.

That happens because of fear, which is our yet-unevolvingness—just means we have not yet fully integrated an experience of this level of contrast and constraint. So, our own fear gives rise to ego and all the suffering that goes along with all the association with form and all the thinking.

Okay, so I'm saying it that way because I don't want to say the sentence, "Suffering itself is good." That's not an appropriate—I don't think that's a great way to say that. However, suffering, when it happens, can be very useful for several reasons.

One, suffering tends to be a rather efficient way to nudge us in the direction of the growth that is optimal for us. So, if we're afraid of something and we resist it, we're going to suffer a lot. This is true in my own case. I was very—I've known a lot of fear, and fear is hell. Like, you're afraid all the time; you don't even know why. You're just miserable all the time, and everything in your life becomes like a slave to trying to satiate and avoid this fear. That's not—it's a very painful way to live.

So, that type of suffering is actually like a huge signpost that is pointing you towards the fear that is the root of why you're in pain so that it can be integrated and healed. And why is that valuable? Because if we can fully know that here and integrate that here, there's this expansion of being that takes place that is so profoundly powerful and awesome.

Like, if Source is this—just a crude dualistic metaphor, and we don't even—duality is not fundamental; this is a metaphor—if Source is here, and you can go vibrationally this far away or maybe as far away or maybe this far away—really far away—and if you can integrate this experience and actually fully come to terms with it and know it all the way—like, fully know it in your being, like fully experience it, fully being—then there's this huge growth of being all the way to here now, which is the growth of because love and joy is what we are. So, this growth is an expansion of love and joy—like lasting, permanent, forever love and joy.

And so, the temporary experience of potential hardship is worth the work—worth it for the soul who wishes to know experience—for the soul which is to integrate experience and integrate contrast is powerful.

So, I guess I mentioned two things there. One is that it points out where we have fear that can be useful to face, and the second is that contrast itself is creative. Like, if you—so here's an example—like, let's say you live your whole life like in a cage—maybe it's a literal cage; maybe it's a figurative cage. You live your whole life in the cage, and it sucks. It's really painful.

Then, when you either in the life when you fully come to terms with it and discover who you really are or after the constraints are dropped and you return to who you really are already—in either case, now you know exactly what it's like to be in a cage, which means that you now fully know what it means to be free—the opposite of what you experience.

So, we come to experience opposites intentionally—not because we're masochistic—but because they are very valuable to actually know.

Neil Donald Walsh tells a great story about this, and I'll paraphrase. There's like a little light in the big light. It's called the story of the light, and the little light says to the big light, "Oh my gosh, I am the light. I am the light." But the light says, "You are the light." And the little light says, "But what does it mean to be the light?" The big light says, "If you wish to know, then I can show you." And the little light is overjoyed. "That's wonderful. How can you show me? How can I know?"

And the big light says, "In order to know what it is to be the light, you must know temporarily darkness. You must know what it is to not be the light." And you have to get so super—and that sounds so super exciting to the little light. But the big light says, "But don't worry, you're always still the light. You'll always still be the light."

And that is a metaphor for a very broad, crude metaphor, but a good metaphor, I think, for the depth of contrast that we sometimes come to experience. I'm saying contrast rather than suffering because it's not just some—there is great suffering as one aspect of contrast. It's all aspects of contrast that are useful in this way—being cold or hungry, you know, whatever. Like, it's all useful.

You know, there's been many metaphors around this topic. Food never tasted better than when you're absolutely starving.

Hungry, exactly.

And I remember saying to a client once years ago who was a real corporate sort of person—she came for a session, and I said, "All they gave me this metaphor I thought was perfect for her. It's like wearing stiletto shoes that are killing your feet all day, and the relief you feel when you come home and take them off."

Yeah, exactly. And then someone says, "Do you want to put those shoes back on?" It's like, "Well, in your right to say no." And yet, you do. Now I know what it's like to wear stiletto shoes. I'm not—I don't want to do that anymore. Exactly, but now you know forever, right?

Yeah, yeah.

The benefit of contrast—look, it can't be spoken about enough. I remember reading The Conversations with God books when I was a young healer and putting myself out there as a healer—as an energy healer. I'd been a studied naturopath and a masseuse, and now I was starting to see all this stuff and doing all these courses and very unsure about it—like, so unsure about, "Am I making it up? Am I crazy?" You know, just in this place of deep doubt.

And I remember having this epiphany one day and thought, "Wow, if it wasn't for this doubt, I will never really understand that knowing—that confidence and that knowing because I'm experiencing this doubt. Then when I kind of finish with the you know, playing with doubt, I'm really going to understand my deep knowing."

Yeah, because of the doubt.

All right, okay. You said also that when you were playing with lives—as you were reviewing what lives that you wanted to experience—you basically saw the life kind of completely made before you came into the life.

No, not completely made. Not completely.

Do you want to just explain that point?

Physically, I write down—are our physical lives pre-made before we live them? Like, but you—it's almost like you looked at everything that was going to happen before you actually—or could happen—probable realities like infinite—and then you said there were many infinite possibilities and probabilities—millions, not infinite, but millions and millions.

Okay, okay. So, first of all, there is free will, and novelty does happen in the physical, which means choices can be made that were not anticipated, and so outcomes can happen that are—"Oh, wow, we didn't see that. We didn't think that was good. That's exciting. Now we've got to deal with that." That happens.

Okay, so but from that side, what you can see is the full context. And what do I mean by context? Like, the all—because the system knows everything about the play. It's all known—like every prop, everything, every player. It's all known. The only thing that's not known is the free will choice-making that will occur with all the players, and that's a big unknown.

Now, the system knows everybody really, really well, so it's pretty darn good at knowing—guessing—how things will very likely unfold. But it is a probabilistic reality, not a set-in-stone, not prescripted reality.

Now, we do set up certain things for ourselves that may be very likely to happen. I'm careful to say very, very likely and not 100% certain. Sometimes it's very close to 100%, but if we try—if we want to engage something specific, often we can arrange it so it's very likely that we will be able to experience what we want.

For instance, the trauma that I experienced when I was 22 in Chengdu, China—you know, I was 22 years old when that happened, but it happened. Though, interestingly, in my pre-birth experience, I did not see—I reviewed my life even in terms of numerical ages. I remember like going through it not in numbers, like very—almost intellectually, thoughtfully, you know, very detailed, and knowing that it was somewhere in my early 20s—not necessarily 22, but somewhere around there—where the energies would work out such that I would likely be deeply traumatized.

And that it would basically kick me into a spot where I was—I had never been before. Like, it was the same fear, but it was like a new trajectory down a certain vibration that I would have to deal with.

Anyway, so it's probabilistic, and the review of the millions and millions of things was what is likely to happen or less likely to happen depending on what I choose and what everybody else chooses.

And also, there are these energetic themes that are running through both our individual lives and also the collective as a whole. So, humanity goes through like the play has certain acts, you could say. So, and the system knows that. So, there's a lot of energy—so to speak, not physical energy, but like thought energy, momentum—that is built up in the content of these great eras or acts that we are experiencing, and that is a part of what is playing out.

So, and the system knows that too. So, yeah, I think that's the best way I can summarize that.

Would you call the probable realities different timelines?

I personally would not. I like Tom Campbell—the physicist and consciousness explorer. I'm a huge fan of Tom. I like his model where he describes a database—that's what we call Akashic records commonly—a database where there are billions upon billions of unactualized outcomes that are stored, and there's one actualized thread for what has actually happened.

And what—and because the database is so rich with all the data—you know, like, that means all this—everything, all the sense data, all the everything—it can be gone and experienced firsthand if someone is capable of doing that. And when you review it firsthand, it's very real. It's like going there in person.

And so, I think that—I personally feel that the idea of all like infinite timelines is maybe—because I don't know for certain—but it may be because people are engaging the Akashic records and seeing they're super real. Everything looks exactly real, fully fleshed out, even things that never actually happened, and they think that might be an alternate living reality. But I think it's more like stored for the purposes of learning.

So, why ask that question is I've spoken with many people who—both in childhood and in their adult life—have been contacted by angelics or extraterrestrials where—usually in their childhood—where they were shown probable realities of Earth, right? And then given a message like, "If you guys—you've got to fix your world because you're going down this trajectory. You know, you get there's mass destruction in your future and chaos, but it can be—you can change that by changing the way you're living your lives."

So, and so they've shown sort of different probable realities—different timelines.

Yeah, so what do you want to say about that?

Well, that's what I just described basically—is that there are these branches, and the choices that we make influence what branches actualize. So, we all individually are doing that, and then every individual is a part of the collective collectively doing that. That's very much what I was describing in my pre-birth experience. It was a probabilistic flowchart of all—you know, what was seen that would probably happen—right? So, that I would know what it would be like to be me and so that I would see the opportunities.

I knew that past my mid-20s, I would be entering a—this is hard to explain. Okay, so imagine like—this isn't directly your question, but it's just a pertinent point—this is just a silly metaphor, but if you imagine that where you start is at home base in the middle—like a campground or something. You're a camp; you go back to home base, and then every time you journey out, you go so far in a certain direction—like, well, maybe you'll do it like circular like this, you know, like maybe go in a different direction.

In this life, you might go really far out this way, and this life feeling might only go a little bit this way. Honestly, well, in this life, I was going very, very, very, very far in one direction—like way past my previous furthest stake. Like, there was a stake in the ground how far I'd gone. I was going to go 20 miles past that one, and because it was so far in that direction, I knew that it would be incredibly difficult for me.

Yeah, anyway, so I knew that that was sort of go back to your original point—reviewing that was a primary aspect of my life. Like, it was extremely likely that I would go down that kind of trajectory because that's exactly what I wanted to do.

How that played out? Well, I mean, here I am. It played out in a way that I don't know how it's laid out in comparison to the original review. I don't have full access to it, but we're all doing something like that. We're all nudging the probabilities all the time—not just with our choices and our thoughts but with our intent. Our very expectation is constantly nudging how things will unfold.

And we're very powerful creative beings. Consciousness is first; the physical is subsequent to consciousness. So, what goes on in our own minds and hearts is actually very important. That's why—that's why shows like this and spending time like this where we're engaging new ideas and where we're trying to basically realize and feel again that deep love that actually is real and actually exists for us—when we do that and we touch into that, it's actually part of the solution.

It doesn't—you may not see an immediate physical effect, but just that resonance—just the resonance between individuals focusing on that love or facing their own fear or getting past ignorance—some kind of ignorance that's held them up their whole life—somehow, our own journeys that happen internally are a part of the ultimate way to heal our world. The ultimate solution? Consciousness is first. Yes, the physical stuff will happen second.

God, I've got so many things going through my mind as I'm listening to you talk, Christian. I'm just thinking about my daughter, and as a parent—have you got children?

I do. I have two children.

How old are they right now?

They are 12 and 10.

So, they're little.

There was some parts where my daughter—she's 30 now—was going through some really dark nights of the soul—really trauma. And you know, the trauma that she was going through, she was doing to herself, but she was in a really bad place. And I kept reaching out to my guides, "What can I do to help? What can I do to help?" And they said, "She's choosing to go through this. This is part of her experience, and she's learning from it. Don't try and fix her; don't try and save her. Just remind her that you're there for her if she needs you."

And it was the hardest thing to watch as a parent—to watch your child's suffering. But at the same time, you know, as she's come through it, she's so much better for it—so much wiser, so much—yeah, so much more fearless and just wiser for the experiences.

And yeah, so I kind of feel like it's the ego that denounces and rejects. Now, if there's some experience—I don't say that lightly because I know there's a lot of very, very extreme suffering happening in the world right now. I know that. Like, I can't imagine—as an example—losing one of my children, right? And there are people who lose their children, and then I can't possibly know how do you come to terms with that?

Yeah, but still, yeah, if we are rejecting reality, it is a vehicle. It's a fear. Yeah, and so it's very important that we learn to meet reality exactly as it is and fully feel it and accept it. And when I say feel it, I mean like everything you actually feel—feel. If you're mad, you're mad; if you're sad, you're sad. Feel it all.

But the feeling—not just the story. It's too easy to get wrapped up in story, story, story, story, story. I'm talking about find out what however reality is arriving to you. Look at it with open eyes. Be willing to feel it and know it, even if it feels hard at the moment. If we do that, those hardships that seem so terrible—those dark nights of the soul—we can very much expedite—not that we're trying to get past them because you can't have the mindset, "I'm going to—I don't like this, so what do I do to fix it? I'll open myself up to it."

That's not the mindset I'm talking about. I'm talking about being completely willing to honor and feel it no matter what it is—whatever your life situation has been—accepting of it. And when you do that, whatever it came to teach you—so to speak—whatever it came—whatever vibration it's offering you—much more easily is integrated and processed and experienced when you let yourself experience it right without fear. Like, you don't have to be afraid.

Yeah, there is nothing that we need to be afraid of.

Spirit keeps agreeing. I get—I hear these little sort of like—it's almost like someone clapping. There's they sound like sort of computer glitches, but they're like every time you say something really poignant, spirit goes, "Yeah, good one."

It's like a high five.

You know, I have a friend—a beautiful friend who's older than me, and she has adult children. And they're such beautiful, beautiful children—just beautiful-looking, amazing children. They actually live in the States, and she's Australian, married American. Anyway, she had a—she has a son. I had a son—has a son. He went off and just going through his mental trauma—mental trauma. I don't know how to—and he became homeless at one stage, and he wouldn't contact his—you know, she was desperate—you know, desperate and kept asking me, "You know, what can I do? What do you guys say? What do you guys say?"

And the guides kept saying, "He'll be okay. He'll be okay. He's exploring contrast. He's choosing this. He's really choosing this." But as a mother, it was hard to tell her that. She just couldn't. "I need to find him. I need to rescue him." And I and the guy said, "You know, he'll come back."

He did come back, and when he did come back into the family, he only stayed for a short period of time to reconnect with them all, and then he left. Then he left his body. And it was devastating for the family, but it's really—how do you honor that? You know, how do you honor his decisions?

I think that yeah, it takes an enlightened soul. This conversation, you know, really helps people see—see like honor that life existence because that was the soul was benefiting hugely from that life.

Yeah, that can be really difficult for us and for our egos—like you said—to be okay with that. But like you said, just being there for them—like just being present and being a loving, fully accepting place for them to come to if they wish or whatever—just being there is really powerful. Like, just love—any amount of love is like a fuel to help someone deal with their own stuff.

You know, acceptance is like the most—it's all acceptance is like a shelter in which someone can do what they need to do and deal with what they need to deal with, right? And then, of course, we judge, "Oh, that looks so terrible." It can be hard to honor what the real them is doing, right?

I'm not making light of it. I'm really not like I understand it's very difficult, but like the being that they are does live on. As I love how you reference just leaving the body, and they're not—it's not like they die. I'm sensitive to the words like, "Oh, they died, and we're going to bury them in the ground." No, burying them in the ground.

So, anyway, so it's if we can honor that part of them that continues on, that's powerful. Yeah, because that relationship isn't lost either. Like, the physical thing—the physical may be done for a while, right? And but love is what we are, so those loving relationships endure and flourish even and can be enjoyed further.

And when I speak with her—because she's not always in Australia, so I don't speak with her that often—I always say, "How is he? Have you heard from him lately?" Like, as if he's still here. And she says, "You know, I've had some dreams with him." But she says, "More than anything, the grandchildren or speak to him all the time. Like, they see him around all the time—Uncle Shahi, there he is." You know, like they've got that's awesome.

So, just to know that just because he's left his body, it doesn't mean he's left the family. I think that there was more of an absence when he was in his physical body and he had left the family than the absence of him leaving his physical body. He's still with the family—very present with the family.

Okay, we could talk about this forever too. I'm going to move on.

The place where you go to practice forgetting—now, this was just fabulous. The place where you go to practice forgetting.

I was speaking to some—names—people in South Africa, and his name will come back to me in a minute. He channels the archangels, and I was quizzing one of the archangels through him about the astral worlds, and he was speaking about—I said, "When we experience karma, can we work out our karma on like a denser physical-type astral world?"

And he said, "No."

And I said, "Well, what happens there?"

And he said, "Well, you can kind of practice on those worlds what it's like being human. It's kind of like a dress rehearsal."

And so, your story very much speaks to what he was talking about—that place where you can practice forgetting.

Yeah, no, it is like that. It's I resonate with what you said about a place on the astral where you can experience a physical—like, you know, it's physical, but it's not. It doesn't have the same constraints as being fully veiled and being fully human. But what I described was not that. It was a veil acceptance specifically. It was about practicing veil acceptance.

I don't think I can describe it more than I have, but it's that was like an exercise in surrender—an exercise like there's a—like a lot of us have a fear of surrender, a fear of lack of control. And that was the energy of what this place was. It was having something come over you—like it's almost scary—and then can you let go to it?

You know, metaphorically, can you let the shark eat you? I mean, it's not like that. I just mean that's like just an Earth metaphor. Something scary arrives, and this was like it was a plummet in vibration, and now you're dark. Oh, and it feels scary. You feel fear rise—fear rises up, and then how do you meet it? And it was practicing the ability of letting go and being fearless and accepting of it.

How do you think the veil is created? Like, how do you apply the veil? Did you get more insight?

It's a question that I've asked my guides many times. They said it's involved with the DNA of the physical body and that you can program the DNA as to—you know, how you were talking about the technicians were sort of like fitting it and sort of—and it was specific to each person.

I've asked them this question often, so listening to your story, it's like, "Oh, a bit more of the puzzle piece of the answers to my questions." Like, how does the—how did—how do you make people forget? How can you make this as well?

Yeah, yep. So, first of all, the veil is—I'll leave you—first of all, leave the DNA thing aside for a sec. That the physical is a different layer.

Okay, so consciousness pre-exists, and the veil is kind of like a consciousness technology. It's like a way in which you can really have a certain perspective so that you can grow through it.

Okay, so how can that possibly work? Well, there is no way for the soul to be bound against its will because the soul is sovereign. It's a part of Source. There's no greater authority. There's not like—you know, it's not like here on Earth where somebody can throw you in a cage or something, and you can't do anything about it. No, you are powerful. You are a sovereign, free-willed being.

So, in order to be veiled, the only way to be veiled is to allow yourself to surrender your own self to it. And then that—I call it a technology because I don't know what other word could possibly speak to this—but it's like a technology that has developed even—I can say over time. The universe is not the first one where a veil has been used.

And they—these technicians do the thing then. So, when so you—so they're like the mechanics or the appliers of this veil technology. They're like super, super good at it.

And so, I don't know what DNA might have to do with it, but I do know that with the meeting of the body and the circumstances with the spirit, they made it all fit. Maybe there's some kind of physical effect on DNA. You know, I'd be postulating.

Well, all physical structure is first created in a subtle structure. So, there are subtle energy forms of the DNA. So, there's like spiritual DNA, if you like. Some people have called it spiritual DNA, where you're designing energetically what you'll experience physically.

And then that, you know, creates the physical—what we look down a microscope and call physical DNA.

Yeah, so it's all sort of connected like this—just layers, different layers of the one energy. Physical is just another layer of energy.

Yeah, physical as a surface layer.

You know, like, of course, you get one gene from each of your parents in each of the DNA segments. And I—they're—I—it's not—I don't think it's a very helpful to try to correlate that directly with, but I agree that there is a like a programming or something like a mating might be a better word of the spirit with the physical in a way that facilitates its success.

And so, your soul and like the qualities that you are very much do influence the physical and shine through the physical. And the physical, of course, is a part of you now, and it influences what your experience, of course.

So, like, if a different soul was to use this body, it would not have—it wouldn't be the same. But I don't—I don't know though. I mean, I didn't review anything about that. I didn't—I don't have any memory of like multiple beings reviewing one's one body.

I do know that this body—sounds kind of funny—but I do know—remember—I do remember knowing that this body had a certain limitation that other bodies don't, and because of it, other—I knew that other beings would just likely pass it up. They wouldn't prefer to be this human because it would make the day-to-day experience hard.

The human that you—that you are today?

Yeah, this body—this body right here.

You thought that other beings—so was there an option for other beings to—

Well, that's what I'm saying. I don't—I don't know, but I know because of that memory, I suspect that it could be used by others. But the thing is that every opportunity—okay, the guides are really good at looking at all the opportunities—you know, all the avatar slots or something. You know, that sounds silly, but it's true.

Look at all the opportunities, and then they can feel there's an incredible energetic evaluation. It's almost like they can review beforehand a lot and then review you and your intentions, and they know how to fit it all. They're like, "Oh, that might actually work. That might—hmm, that's interesting."

It's part, you know, and as for difficulty, you know, sometimes they—you know, guides might even have different ways to guide you. But in general, you know, they try to help you not bite off more than you can chew because usually it's us wanting to bite off even more because we know how much expansion is possible.

But they, so they usually try to guide you into a way that is helpful—like the most helpful for you that they can be and to optimize your chances for success.

Yeah, yeah.

Oh, gosh, we've been going for over an hour. There's so much to your story. What else did I write down that I wanted to talk to you about?

Beings who've mastered or graduated life in the human experience universe are like gods in other systems. Like, would you—I loved that. That was fabulous.

So, when you do come to Earth and have difficult lives or lives of contrast, and you master that or graduate, you're kind of like—you're like a god in another system—like a more highly evolved system that doesn't have as much extreme contrast. You're like the ascended masters in other worlds, right? When you've kind of graduated Earth school, those were the—that was the language of Bob Monroe that I borrowed there. He described a graduate of the physical universe as being like God in another thought-responsive system.

Well, if you imagine—okay, so we are consciousness, and so as we refine the quality of what we are—and that means as we integrate experience and master all the aspects of being—conquer, you know, overcome fear and learn how to express love in rich ways, real genuine ways—as we improve the quality of our intent—that's like the key of all of this is the quality of our intent based in love or fear.

As we learn to do that, then that means when we are now applying ourselves into a reality system that is far less constraining because we've been able to wield a certain intent here in these contexts and come to terms with certain very, very dense experiences. And when we are in those less concerning environments, what we can do by comparison is extreme.

I also heard you quote Seth—one of my favorites. One of the first books I've ever read. Physical life is like a bright light that you just can't look away from, but you can.

Ah, okay, let's apply this knowledge to what we're going through on Earth at the moment. You know, my guides were saying through me the other day that what's happening on planet Earth with the controlled drama and the you know, the deadly virus and all the sort of stuff—it's not creating fear; it's revealing fear.

They were saying that if you're scared of spiders and somebody shows you a spider, your fear will be revealed. But if you're not scared of spiders and somebody comes to you with a great big tarantula, you'll say, "Oh, let me pet it." You know, like the fear isn't there if you're so—what's happening in our Earth—on our Earth—so there's a sort of rollout of the propaganda of this virus that's going to kill you.

And so, there's fear arises because you don't want your fear of getting sick or fear of dying, and then there's a new fear that's arising as they're mandating, you know, this certain allopathic treatment that those who don't choose it—there's huge fear in the community that they will be outcast. They will be, you know, there's just so much fear arising.

So, how—those are all surface contexts, not with not fear itself. Like you—like you pointed out, fear of spiders isn't the spider isn't the fear. Our fear gets prompted, and fear just means the—I didn't interrupt you. I'm just—I'm sensitive to calling those things fear. They are neutral context—just like everything else in our world. We apply the meaning.

So, what do you mean it's a neutral context?

So, if you're scared of—if you're fearful of spiders, that's not fear.

So, no, so a spider is neutral. Yeah, it doesn't necessarily prompt fear, but if you're afraid of it, you will respond in fear, as you pointed out.

So, I'm just saying that the coronavirus situation is just an element of our context—just like every other element in a world that's had drug abuse and heart attacks and, you know, and beautiful sunsets and all the things that exist in our world. It's all a context of form, and the form itself is not fundamentally charged. We apply the meaning to it. We respond in love or fear, and we buy into meaning about those things.

So, I'm just highlighting that because I think it's important to not immediately associate some specific context with it being fear. You know, that's not—there's no—like an evolved being will respond even to great challenges without fear.

Said that again—a very evolved being will respond to very great challenges without fear, right? With love. And it's okay that the context is whatever it is, right?

Like Byron Katie, who I feel like is like one of the most evolved people on planet Earth—you know, she doesn't suffer anymore because she doesn't believe her stressful thoughts. So, when context happens, as you call it, she gets cancer. She goes, "Wow, I haven't had cancer before. This will be interesting." She goes blind. "Oh, I've never been blind before. This is going to be a fun ride."

So, she responds to the context without fear—like it's another adventure, another human adventure I'm having here on Earth—instead of going into panic and worry and fear and dread.

Yeah, and I'm not saying that's easy by any means. I mean, I have a lot of fear. I've experienced fear commonly. That's what I'm here to deal with. But I'm just pointing out that it's a very powerful realization because the power is in you.

You know, we don't have to assign our power to the context. "Oh, there's this coronavirus."

As I'm watching life unfold on planet Earth at the moment, and I'm thinking about our authority systems—you know, the police, for instance, which is an authority system—we use fear to make humans do stuff. So, let's just look at what's currently happening in Sydney, Australia, at the moment. We are in lockdown. We cannot exist. We cannot go five kilometers away from our home, and if we do, we get put in jail or a $5,000 fine.

So, then people are obeying these rules because they're fearful of having a $5,000 fine or being put in jail. So, they're actually obeying the rules. They could be obeying the rules out of fear, or they could be obeying the rules out of peace and love.

Well, you could—I'm just thinking about my experience. Like, my daughter's just arrived—no, I just mean all of it. I'm just trying to—I'm just trying to say that—well, I'm thinking about my experience. My daughter's just arrived back from being on a boat for five months, sailing the coast and up and down the east coast of Australia, and she's just arrived back, and she's more than five kilometers away from me.

And so, if I go to pick her up, I'm going to be breaking the law, so to speak, and then I'm thinking, "I could be thrown in jail for that." Will I do it? Actually, I'm a fearless person, and I also know that I can kind of fly under the radar. But I could do that, and no police is gonna—if you're not too focused on what can happen, it doesn't happen.

But it's just—it's just there in my face at the moment in all our faces as we go through what's going on planet Earth. So, it's an option. Yeah, I'm just highlighting—I don't make light of that. I'm just highlighting that the fact that you will get a $5,000 fine if you get caught more than five kilometers from your house is just an aspect of context right now, right? It doesn't automatically—it's not negative until you decide it's negative.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, or being thrown out. And then when we look at that, we go, "Oh, that's—I don't like that." You know, and then we—and then our ego rises up, and then we're part of the problem because, like, you know, we like to blame the authority structures. Well, the authority structures are just other people—you know, lots of other people making choices based on systems that have developed over hundreds and thousands of years.

But we're a very young species—a very immature species—and like we already talked about, our leadership is not necessarily the most evolved and loving all the time. So, you've got a very imperfect system, and that's just—you know, that's just how it is right now.

Yeah, that's okay. It doesn't need to be—like, we don't need to assign our power to this great—like, I'm generally someone who is—I'm not a conspiracy theorist in general, just like as my personality type. I feel that in general, we there are a lot of people in the world who are doing either their best or they're overcome—you know, by their own fear and their own challenges.

And there's seven billion of us doing that, and that's what's happening. You've got lots of—it's a very constraining system where we feel very separate from each other. So, that means we're going to make all sorts of contexts that are potentially challenging for one another. Yeah, we're going to treat each other poorly even if we don't mean to.

Right, because if you—I think I think of that often as I look at our politicians. You know, they create more and more restrictions and lockdowns and laws, and I just see—like I said to my neighbor, "If you look into the eyes of our premier—who's a woman—even before any of this stuff happened, all I could see was huge amounts of fear in her eyes."

Like, I said, "I can't look at that woman. All I can see is fear in her eyes." How she rose to a place of power and politics, I never know. She's obviously very intelligent, and now she's placed in a position where she is on television every day telling Australians what they can and can't do. And the poor love—I actually feel really sorry for her.

So, a lot of people are calling her the devil, and you know, they're demonizing this poor woman, but she's just someone living inside a lot of fear with a lot of responsibility on her shoulders.

Yeah, so when the journey is over, you might query the—or even not—or even before the journey's over, query the database. I'm just pointing out that it's not—it's not just that there's always a—we're always applying interpretation. So, it's possible that some of our leaders—and I think in many cases, it's true that many of our leaders are just trying to do their best to, you know, limit the destruction of COVID-19. It's not about limiting freedom, but a little freedom.

So, then there's a choice. Well, they're—yeah, they're doing their best because they're believing the narrative. And if you believe a story, then you do your best to try and overcome it. But if you don't believe a story, then—

I have a—I can't say a friend—she was an acquaintance. She was a healer, and she was a homeopathic naturopath, and she used to avoid all toxins. Like, you couldn't offer a cup of coffee or any food that was made with not organic food. Like, she avoided toxins her whole life. She was very strict about her health regime, and she taught that.

And then she got cancer, right? And I remember speaking to her and her husband—who was a filmmaker—about her journey, and nothing that she applied to her own health helped her with her cancer. And so, she went to have chemotherapy, and she said, "The irony of sticking my arm out willingly to get an injection of a cocktail of poison in the name of health when I've tried to avoid poison all my life." You know, the irony in that.

She did end up leaving her body, but she got the lesson in all of this—that it's not what we avoid—you know, what we resist—that kind of makes us healthy. It's what we embrace, really. It's how we love and what we embrace.

And she was talking about being in the clinic and them offering her a cup of coffee, and a friend had said to her, "Oh, you wouldn't have drunk the coffee." And she said, "A cup of coffee offered with love is so much more healthy than avoiding, you know, the coffee." You know what I mean? Just—she got the lesson.

Yeah, she got the lesson. It was really interesting. But she believed that the poison—that life was poisonous and that that would make you sick. She believed that story, and so she lived her life according to that.

So, if we believe a story—call it conspiracy theory or not—if you believe a story that you're in danger, that you're going to act accordingly.

Yeah, our whole human experience—well, not the whole human experience—that I'll say that the vast majority of humans experience a deep story—a story, you know, like the life on Earth is a story, right? And the story is really paramount to what's happening because whatever you end up believing about yourself and about the world is how the world will appear back to you and what you will end up creating both.

So, our stories are super important and powerful.

Yeah, it's all of it, isn't it? And love is the power.

Oh, darling, I've been talking for almost an hour and a half. Is there anything else you'd like to leave with us before we finish this conversation?

So many more things we could say, but I hope that this really unpacks what life before life and life is all about for people. Just—I'll just make one—I can't possibly unpack all of it. No, no, no individual can, but just one comment to anybody who is listening: Please be reminded today that you are so deeply, deeply, deeply loved. You are so precious and so loved, and you are seen and known and understood right now.

You may not be able to feel it all the time because that's part of the human experience, but to that, I want to just remind you: You're not human. You're having the experience of being human. You're the you that feels like you to you. You're your soul. You're you knowing what it's like to be a human. There's an important difference there.

So, it's okay to not get so wrapped up in the story—you know, the context, all these things of what's happening in the world, what's happening to me. We can put that aside and deeply experience how reality is arriving to us and know that we are not just the story. We're not just the human.

So, I hope that that's helpful because, I mean, when you know that, you know there's nothing to fear. So, please be reminded of that too. There's nothing to fear in this life.

Beautiful.

You know, I had Michael Tamura as our guest teacher in the Inner Sanctum at the beginning of the year, and I asked him the same question. I said, "Everyone's talking about what's going on in the world, and you and Rafael—his wife—do a radio show every week, and you don't mention it once. Why don't you mention it?"

And he goes, "It's just more of the contrast of life, isn't it? It's like, it's just what we come to experience here on Earth. It's the contrast. It's like that's what happens. People get sick; people suffer. It's just more of the same. You know, no reason to really speak about it and mention it because, yeah, we can transcend anything that's happening on Earth when we remember."

We can transcend even being limited within five kilometers of our home or whatever other—I have to say, as I thought about getting in the car and driving, I wasn't too worried about it, but it was a thought. You know, "I'm not supposed to do that. I could get pulled up by the police. I could get thrown in jail. Oh well, that happens."

I would do it anyway. Like, I would do it anyway. If they want to put me in jail for going and picking up my daughter, then let that happen. Yeah, I would do it anyway. I wouldn't let fear stop me. Fear rarely stops me. I think I've transcended a lot of fears in this lifetime—few to go.

Thank you, gorgeous. Thank you for the opportunity, Karen. I really appreciate it.

What a beautiful conversation with Christian. Wasn't that gorgeous? I was just having a big chat with him about having somewhere where people can go to engage with him on his Facebook or YouTube. I noticed last night when I was searching him that he has a YouTube channel—his name—but nothing's on there.

And I said, "Start doing some stuff—doing some lives and getting people to ask questions." So, maybe you want to engage with him and follow him on his YouTube channel because the only way you can engage with him at the moment is read his book or send him an email.

So, the book—if you look, he's actually provided it free on Google Books on his website. Obviously, if you want the physical book, you have to pay for it on Amazon, but he's actually provided a link on his website to get the book for free to read it on Google Books.

I was trying—I did that last night, but I like to get my computer to read me the book so I can multitask, but you can't do that on Google Books. You have to actually sit there and read it.

Starts like if they send me a PDF, then I just get the computer to read it to me so I can watch the dishes and do what I need to do.

Yeah, a beautiful conversation. I hope you got a lot out of that conversation. We touched on some interesting parts, but basically, if you are less engaged with this reality being your truth, you can actually witness it from love and understanding—even the huge contrast that we're experiencing now at the moment.

And I got this long email from someone this morning who's been seeing the control that's been rolled out, and she's just in dread and fear. But dread and fear don't exist when you're, as Paul Selig says, when you live in the upper room. And living in the upper room just means in contact with your soul—in contact with that part of you that is eternal. That's the spirit—the spirit of you, the soul of you, the higher self.

And you understand that no matter what happens in this world, you are not what happens in this world. You are experiencing it for the benefit of the contrast. And how is it serving you? How is what is happening in this world serving you? How is knowing that you could get sick and die serve you?

Interesting, isn't it? If you think, "I can get sick and die," then you start to appreciate the moments that you're not sick. Like, you start to appreciate the now more. There's huge benefits to the contrast we experience.

And yes, it would be good if we don't experience as much fear in this world. That's what we're all here to do as light weavers—to lessen the fear that we're all living under and to move from fear to love.

But as you move out of your fear and into love and into your—into an intimate relationship with your soul, your inner truth, your inner being—a part of you that knows—the part of you that doesn't fear—then you are a huge benefit to this world as you start to emanate love. Then that love wakes up other people to the love inside them, and that they don't have to be fearful either—whether you're scared of being ostracized because you're making different choices.

Fear creates separation, and love unifies. So, stay loving. Love is the power. Love is the power. Love is the power. And Christian's story is really a beautiful example of how love is the power.

All right, I'm going to play chat too much more. My daughter's coming home after—after—she doesn't live with me, but she's coming here after being months and months and months out to sea on an expedition. If you want to follow them, follow the Barefoot Captain on Instagram, and she's a new nerf fist on Instagram, and she posts all her beautiful photographs of her underwater adventures, above water, and her sailing adventures—new nerf fists.

And how does she spell it? You know, I'll put the links underneath, and the Barefoot Captain is the boat that she's on—Barefoot Captain Dean, the Barefoot on the Barefoot. So, they've just arrived back from 110 days out at sea, and she's coming here soon. So, I'm going to go and squeeze my daughter for the first time in months and months.

And remember to—who's coming up in the Inner Sanctum? I'm not sure. Go to the website; check it out. I'm not sure who's coming up this month. Let me just check the calendar, but I'm online every week.

And if you haven't checked out the book Awakened by Death, please do so.

Big love to all of you. Bye for now.